<div dir="ltr">So don't drop your patch ?<div><br></div><div>I still think that the approach I proposed upstream is the best one but I am pessimistic about the chances of upsreaming...</div><div>I'll ping the issue, but don't hold your breath.</div><div><br></div><div>If this is rejected upstream, we might want to keep the patch locally, but that's a subject to discuss when we reach that point.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 3 févr. 2020 à 19:41, Bartosz Bilas <<a href="mailto:b.bilas@grinn-global.com">b.bilas@grinn-global.com</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div>
    Nah, sorry guys - I've been mistaken for the email so please ignore
    the previous message then.<br>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    Best<br>
    Bartek<br>
    <div>On 03.02.2020 19:34, Bartosz Bilas
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      <p>Hi everyone,<br>
      </p>
      <p>I had finally a couple of time to double-check that and I agree
        with Jeremy that I was wrong therefore let's reject this patch
        as it turned out as an unthought idea.</p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      Best<br>
      Bartek
      <div>On 03.02.2020 19:28, Bartosz Bilas
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        
        Hello everyone,<br>
        <p>let's reject this patch due to possible upstream solution as
          Jeremy mentioned.<br>
        </p>
        Best<br>
        Bartek<br>
        <div>On 19.11.2019 11:15, Jérémy ROSEN
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          
          <div dir="ltr">As a side-note, I am working with upstream to
            have a better support of (3) : <a href="https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/14059" target="_blank">https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/14059</a>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>I am a bit cautious about the new config option because
              it seems too "advanced" for a config option (for me, it's
              something that should be set</div>
            <div>in a post-image or overlay) but that's open to
              discussion.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Please wait a little before applying this patch, if
              that's the way buildroot wants to go, so my pull-request
              above is solved and we might</div>
            <div>backport it to ease our transition.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Cheers</div>
            <div>Jérémy</div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 19 nov. 2019
              à 09:40, Thomas Petazzoni <<a href="mailto:thomas.petazzoni@bootlin.com" target="_blank">thomas.petazzoni@bootlin.com</a>>
              a écrit :<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello,<br>
              <br>
              On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:00:05 +0100<br>
              Arnout Vandecappelle <<a href="mailto:arnout@mind.be" target="_blank">arnout@mind.be</a>>
              wrote:<br>
              <br>
              > > Could something like that be enough ? can we
              trust "remount RW" ?<br>
              > > maybe "remount RW" should be renamed "create a
              RW filesystem" and enable various<br>
              > > tweaks related to RO vs RW  <br>
              > <br>
              >  As written above: no.<br>
              > <br>
              >  The problem is: we're not a distro.<br>
              <br>
              Agreed.<br>
              <br>
              > We leave too much freedom for the user to<br>
              > integrate things in various ways to be able to make
              assumptions about what is<br>
              > the right way to do things. So, the only thing we can
              do is to give a decent<br>
              > out-of-the-box experience, and let the user figure
              out how to tweak things -<br>
              > possibly adding a config option for a common
              situation that is easily handled in<br>
              > a generic way. The other thing we can do is to
              provide documentation about the<br>
              > proper way to integrate things in different
              scenarios.<br>
              > <br>
              >  I'm starting to agree that this option is maybe not
              that great.<br>
              <br>
              But I would in fact not come to the same conclusion.
              Having this empty<br>
              machine-id file is useless and causes problems when the
              filesystem is<br>
              R/W. So for the sake of supporting the R/O case (for which
              we create<br>
              this empty machine-id file), we make the R/W experience
              less good.<br>
              <br>
              So I'd say that the right approach is to not do too much
              integration by<br>
              precisely having the option proposed by Bartosz, with many
              the tweak<br>
              that it should default y if rootfs is really, and default
              disable<br>
              otherwise, but while still being an option that the user
              can tweak,<br>
              because as you rightfully explained, the RW/RO remount
              option is just a<br>
              clue, not a definitive answer on whether /etc is writable
              or not.<br>
              <br>
              To me, having this option matches the Buildroot way: we
              are not a<br>
              distro, we don't enforce how the system should work, so we
              provide the<br>
              appropriate options, while making sure the option has the
              most sensible<br>
              default values.<br>
              <br>
              Generally speaking, Buildroot kind of supports "out of the
              box" two use<br>
              cases:<br>
              <br>
               (1) The root filesystem is completely read-write.<br>
              <br>
               (2) The root filesystem is completely read-only, and all
              files that need<br>
                   to be written are stored in tmpfs, and therefore are
              volatile.<br>
              <br>
              I.e, we do not have any explicit support for what is I
              guess a much<br>
              more common use case than (2):<br>
              <br>
               (3) The root filesystem is completely read-only, but
              there is another<br>
                   read-write partition somewhere that stores the
              information that can<br>
                   change but needs to be persistent (user
              configuration, etc.)<br>
              <br>
              Since we don't have explicit support for (3), there is no
              way we can<br>
              properly support machine-id and ConditionFirstBoot in the
              case of (2),<br>
              because there's nowhere we can store /etc/machine-id.<br>
              <br>
              So the best we can do is in the case of (2), default to
              creating an<br>
              empty /etc/machine-id, while giving the possibility for
              the user<br>
              implementing (3) in its own way, to disable the creation
              of the empty<br>
              /etc/machine-id.<br>
              <br>
              Best regards,<br>
              <br>
              Thomas<br>
              -- <br>
              Thomas Petazzoni, CTO, Bootlin<br>
              Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering<br>
              <a href="https://bootlin.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bootlin.com</a><br>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <br clear="all">
          <div><br>
          </div>
          -- <br>
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div>
                <div dir="ltr">
                  <table style="border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Raleway,regular;font-size:14px;padding:20px" border="0">
                    <tbody>
                      <tr>
                        <td style="padding:0px 30px 0px 0px;font-size:13px;color:rgb(255,128,84);text-align:center"><a href="http://www.smile.eu/" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(221,72,20)" target="_blank"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/Logo-new.png" alt="SMILE" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; max-width: 100%; height: auto;"> </a><br>
                          <br>
                          <p style="margin:0px 0px 10px">20 rue des
                            Jardins<br>
                            92600 Asnières-sur-Seine</p>
                        </td>
                        <td style="padding:0px 0px 0px 20px;border-left:1px solid rgb(59,127,254);font-size:13px;color:rgb(255,128,84)">
                          <div style="font-size:14px"><b>Jérémy ROSEN</b></div>
                          <div style="color:rgb(59,127,254)">Architecte
                            technique<br>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                          <div style="color:rgb(59,127,254)"><span style="white-space:nowrap"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/mail.png" alt="email" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; margin-right: 5px;" width="12" height="10"> <a href="mailto:jeremy.rosen@smile.fr" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(59,127,254)" target="_blank">jeremy.rosen@smile.fr</a> </span><br>
                            <span style="white-space:nowrap"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/phone.png" alt="phone" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; margin-right: 5px;" width="10" height="10"></span>  +33 6 88 25 87 42 <br>
                            <span style="white-space:nowrap"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/web.png" alt="url" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; margin-right: 5px;" width="12" height="12"> <a href="http://www.smile.eu/" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(59,127,254)" target="_blank">http://www.smile.eu</a></span></div>
                          <br>
                          <div><span><a href="https://twitter.com/GroupeSmile" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(221,72,20);margin-right:5px" target="_blank"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/rs-twitter.png" alt="Twitter" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; max-width: 100%; height: auto;"></a></span> <span><a href="https://www.facebook.com/smileopensource" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(221,72,20);margin-right:5px" target="_blank"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/rs-facebook.png" alt="Facebook" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; max-width: 100%; height: auto;"></a></span> <span><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/smile" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(221,72,20);margin-right:5px" target="_blank"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/rs-linkedin.png" alt="LinkedIn" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; max-width: 100%; height: auto;"></a></span> <span><a href="https://github.com/Smile-SA" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(221,72,20);margin-right:5px" target="_blank"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/rs-github.png" alt="Github" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; max-width: 100%; height: auto;"></a></span></div>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                    </tbody>
                  </table>
                  <br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Raleway,regular;font-size:14px">
                  <div style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Raleway,regular;font-size:14px"><a href="https://www.smile.eu/fr/publications/livres-blancs/yocto?utm_source=signature&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=signature" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(221,72,20)" target="_blank"><img src="https://signature.smile.eu/assets/img/bandeaux_signature_mail_yocto.gif.gif" alt="Découvrez l’univers Smile, rendez-vous sur
                        smile.eu" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" border="0"></a></div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <br>
        <fieldset></fieldset>
        <pre>_______________________________________________
buildroot mailing list
<a href="mailto:buildroot@busybox.net" target="_blank">buildroot@busybox.net</a>
<a href="http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/buildroot" target="_blank">http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/buildroot</a>
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
buildroot mailing list
<a href="mailto:buildroot@busybox.net" target="_blank">buildroot@busybox.net</a>
<a href="http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/buildroot" target="_blank">http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/buildroot</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </div>

</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><table border="0" style="border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Raleway,regular;font-size:14px;padding:20px"><tbody><tr><td style="padding:0px 30px 0px 0px;font-size:13px;color:rgb(255,128,84);text-align:center"><a href="http://www.smile.eu/" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(221,72,20)" target="_blank"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/Logo-new.png" alt="SMILE" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; max-width: 100%; height: auto;"> </a><br><br><p style="margin:0px 0px 10px">20 rue des Jardins<br>92600 Asnières-sur-Seine</p></td><td style="padding:0px 0px 0px 20px;border-left:1px solid rgb(59,127,254);font-size:13px;color:rgb(255,128,84)"><div style="font-size:14px"><b>Jérémy ROSEN</b></div><div style="color:rgb(59,127,254)">Architecte technique<br></div><br><div style="color:rgb(59,127,254)"><span style="white-space:nowrap"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/mail.png" alt="email" width="12" height="10" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; margin-right: 5px;"> <a href="mailto:jeremy.rosen@smile.fr" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(59,127,254)" target="_blank">jeremy.rosen@smile.fr</a> </span><br><span style="white-space:nowrap"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/phone.png" alt="phone" width="10" height="10" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; margin-right: 5px;"></span>  +33 6 88 25 87 42 <br><span style="white-space:nowrap"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/web.png" alt="url" width="12" height="12" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; margin-right: 5px;"> <a href="http://www.smile.eu/" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(59,127,254)" target="_blank">http://www.smile.eu</a></span></div><br><div><span><a href="https://twitter.com/GroupeSmile" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(221,72,20);margin-right:5px" target="_blank"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/rs-twitter.png" alt="Twitter" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; max-width: 100%; height: auto;"></a></span> <span><a href="https://www.facebook.com/smileopensource" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(221,72,20);margin-right:5px" target="_blank"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/rs-facebook.png" alt="Facebook" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; max-width: 100%; height: auto;"></a></span> <span><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/smile" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(221,72,20);margin-right:5px" target="_blank"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/rs-linkedin.png" alt="LinkedIn" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; max-width: 100%; height: auto;"></a></span> <span><a href="https://github.com/Smile-SA" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(221,72,20);margin-right:5px" target="_blank"><img src="http://ftp.smile.fr/client/Communication/signature/img/rs-github.png" alt="Github" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; max-width: 100%; height: auto;"></a></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Raleway,regular;font-size:14px"><div style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Raleway,regular;font-size:14px"><a href="https://www.smile.eu/fr/publications/livres-blancs/yocto?utm_source=signature&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=signature" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(221,72,20)" target="_blank"><img src="https://signature.smile.eu/assets/img/bandeaux_signature_mail_yocto.gif.gif" alt="Découvrez l’univers Smile, rendez-vous sur smile.eu" border="0" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;"></a></div></div></div></div></div>