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    <p>Hi everyone,<br>
    </p>
    <p>I had finally a couple of time to double-check that and I agree
      with Jeremy that I was wrong therefore let's reject this patch as
      it turned out as an unthought idea.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    Best<br>
    Bartek
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03.02.2020 19:28, Bartosz Bilas
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:29c3de2c-0add-0305-3c47-1e02658e9fac@grinn-global.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      Hello everyone,<br>
      <p>let's reject this patch due to possible upstream solution as
        Jeremy mentioned.<br>
      </p>
      Best<br>
      Bartek<br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19.11.2019 11:15, Jérémy ROSEN
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAFvCimWo84uxBqohUeG9zA_nD21AfCUp6nme_a8aBQ8sRShACg@mail.gmail.com">
        <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
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        <div dir="ltr">As a side-note, I am working with upstream to
          have a better support of (3) : <a
            href="https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/14059"
            moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/14059</a>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I am a bit cautious about the new config option because
            it seems too "advanced" for a config option (for me, it's
            something that should be set</div>
          <div>in a post-image or overlay) but that's open to
            discussion.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Please wait a little before applying this patch, if
            that's the way buildroot wants to go, so my pull-request
            above is solved and we might</div>
          <div>backport it to ease our transition.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Cheers</div>
          <div>Jérémy</div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 19 nov. 2019
            à 09:40, Thomas Petazzoni <<a
              href="mailto:thomas.petazzoni@bootlin.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true">thomas.petazzoni@bootlin.com</a>>
            a écrit :<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
            0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
            rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello,<br>
            <br>
            On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:00:05 +0100<br>
            Arnout Vandecappelle <<a href="mailto:arnout@mind.be"
              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">arnout@mind.be</a>>
            wrote:<br>
            <br>
            > > Could something like that be enough ? can we trust
            "remount RW" ?<br>
            > > maybe "remount RW" should be renamed "create a RW
            filesystem" and enable various<br>
            > > tweaks related to RO vs RW  <br>
            > <br>
            >  As written above: no.<br>
            > <br>
            >  The problem is: we're not a distro.<br>
            <br>
            Agreed.<br>
            <br>
            > We leave too much freedom for the user to<br>
            > integrate things in various ways to be able to make
            assumptions about what is<br>
            > the right way to do things. So, the only thing we can
            do is to give a decent<br>
            > out-of-the-box experience, and let the user figure out
            how to tweak things -<br>
            > possibly adding a config option for a common situation
            that is easily handled in<br>
            > a generic way. The other thing we can do is to provide
            documentation about the<br>
            > proper way to integrate things in different scenarios.<br>
            > <br>
            >  I'm starting to agree that this option is maybe not
            that great.<br>
            <br>
            But I would in fact not come to the same conclusion. Having
            this empty<br>
            machine-id file is useless and causes problems when the
            filesystem is<br>
            R/W. So for the sake of supporting the R/O case (for which
            we create<br>
            this empty machine-id file), we make the R/W experience less
            good.<br>
            <br>
            So I'd say that the right approach is to not do too much
            integration by<br>
            precisely having the option proposed by Bartosz, with many
            the tweak<br>
            that it should default y if rootfs is really, and default
            disable<br>
            otherwise, but while still being an option that the user can
            tweak,<br>
            because as you rightfully explained, the RW/RO remount
            option is just a<br>
            clue, not a definitive answer on whether /etc is writable or
            not.<br>
            <br>
            To me, having this option matches the Buildroot way: we are
            not a<br>
            distro, we don't enforce how the system should work, so we
            provide the<br>
            appropriate options, while making sure the option has the
            most sensible<br>
            default values.<br>
            <br>
            Generally speaking, Buildroot kind of supports "out of the
            box" two use<br>
            cases:<br>
            <br>
             (1) The root filesystem is completely read-write.<br>
            <br>
             (2) The root filesystem is completely read-only, and all
            files that need<br>
                 to be written are stored in tmpfs, and therefore are
            volatile.<br>
            <br>
            I.e, we do not have any explicit support for what is I guess
            a much<br>
            more common use case than (2):<br>
            <br>
             (3) The root filesystem is completely read-only, but there
            is another<br>
                 read-write partition somewhere that stores the
            information that can<br>
                 change but needs to be persistent (user configuration,
            etc.)<br>
            <br>
            Since we don't have explicit support for (3), there is no
            way we can<br>
            properly support machine-id and ConditionFirstBoot in the
            case of (2),<br>
            because there's nowhere we can store /etc/machine-id.<br>
            <br>
            So the best we can do is in the case of (2), default to
            creating an<br>
            empty /etc/machine-id, while giving the possibility for the
            user<br>
            implementing (3) in its own way, to disable the creation of
            the empty<br>
            /etc/machine-id.<br>
            <br>
            Best regards,<br>
            <br>
            Thomas<br>
            -- <br>
            Thomas Petazzoni, CTO, Bootlin<br>
            Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering<br>
            <a href="https://bootlin.com" rel="noreferrer"
              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://bootlin.com</a><br>
          </blockquote>
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        -- <br>
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                        <p style="margin:0px 0px 10px">20 rue des
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                          92600 Asnières-sur-Seine</p>
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                        <div style="font-size:14px"><b>Jérémy ROSEN</b></div>
                        <div style="color:rgb(59,127,254)">Architecte
                          technique<br>
                        </div>
                        <br>
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      <br>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
buildroot mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:buildroot@busybox.net">buildroot@busybox.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/buildroot">http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/buildroot</a>
</pre>
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