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Nah, sorry guys - I've been mistaken for the email so please ignore
the previous message then.<br>
<p><br>
</p>
Best<br>
Bartek<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03.02.2020 19:34, Bartosz Bilas
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:53507a28-495b-1b77-cc08-1e78afcd2d0b@grinn-global.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Hi everyone,<br>
</p>
<p>I had finally a couple of time to double-check that and I agree
with Jeremy that I was wrong therefore let's reject this patch
as it turned out as an unthought idea.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
Best<br>
Bartek
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03.02.2020 19:28, Bartosz Bilas
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:29c3de2c-0add-0305-3c47-1e02658e9fac@grinn-global.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
Hello everyone,<br>
<p>let's reject this patch due to possible upstream solution as
Jeremy mentioned.<br>
</p>
Best<br>
Bartek<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19.11.2019 11:15, Jérémy ROSEN
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAFvCimWo84uxBqohUeG9zA_nD21AfCUp6nme_a8aBQ8sRShACg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">As a side-note, I am working with upstream to
have a better support of (3) : <a
href="https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/14059"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/14059</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am a bit cautious about the new config option because
it seems too "advanced" for a config option (for me, it's
something that should be set</div>
<div>in a post-image or overlay) but that's open to
discussion.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please wait a little before applying this patch, if
that's the way buildroot wants to go, so my pull-request
above is solved and we might</div>
<div>backport it to ease our transition.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div>Jérémy</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 19 nov. 2019
à 09:40, Thomas Petazzoni <<a
href="mailto:thomas.petazzoni@bootlin.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">thomas.petazzoni@bootlin.com</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello,<br>
<br>
On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:00:05 +0100<br>
Arnout Vandecappelle <<a href="mailto:arnout@mind.be"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">arnout@mind.be</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> > Could something like that be enough ? can we
trust "remount RW" ?<br>
> > maybe "remount RW" should be renamed "create a
RW filesystem" and enable various<br>
> > tweaks related to RO vs RW <br>
> <br>
> As written above: no.<br>
> <br>
> The problem is: we're not a distro.<br>
<br>
Agreed.<br>
<br>
> We leave too much freedom for the user to<br>
> integrate things in various ways to be able to make
assumptions about what is<br>
> the right way to do things. So, the only thing we can
do is to give a decent<br>
> out-of-the-box experience, and let the user figure
out how to tweak things -<br>
> possibly adding a config option for a common
situation that is easily handled in<br>
> a generic way. The other thing we can do is to
provide documentation about the<br>
> proper way to integrate things in different
scenarios.<br>
> <br>
> I'm starting to agree that this option is maybe not
that great.<br>
<br>
But I would in fact not come to the same conclusion.
Having this empty<br>
machine-id file is useless and causes problems when the
filesystem is<br>
R/W. So for the sake of supporting the R/O case (for which
we create<br>
this empty machine-id file), we make the R/W experience
less good.<br>
<br>
So I'd say that the right approach is to not do too much
integration by<br>
precisely having the option proposed by Bartosz, with many
the tweak<br>
that it should default y if rootfs is really, and default
disable<br>
otherwise, but while still being an option that the user
can tweak,<br>
because as you rightfully explained, the RW/RO remount
option is just a<br>
clue, not a definitive answer on whether /etc is writable
or not.<br>
<br>
To me, having this option matches the Buildroot way: we
are not a<br>
distro, we don't enforce how the system should work, so we
provide the<br>
appropriate options, while making sure the option has the
most sensible<br>
default values.<br>
<br>
Generally speaking, Buildroot kind of supports "out of the
box" two use<br>
cases:<br>
<br>
(1) The root filesystem is completely read-write.<br>
<br>
(2) The root filesystem is completely read-only, and all
files that need<br>
to be written are stored in tmpfs, and therefore are
volatile.<br>
<br>
I.e, we do not have any explicit support for what is I
guess a much<br>
more common use case than (2):<br>
<br>
(3) The root filesystem is completely read-only, but
there is another<br>
read-write partition somewhere that stores the
information that can<br>
change but needs to be persistent (user
configuration, etc.)<br>
<br>
Since we don't have explicit support for (3), there is no
way we can<br>
properly support machine-id and ConditionFirstBoot in the
case of (2),<br>
because there's nowhere we can store /etc/machine-id.<br>
<br>
So the best we can do is in the case of (2), default to
creating an<br>
empty /etc/machine-id, while giving the possibility for
the user<br>
implementing (3) in its own way, to disable the creation
of the empty<br>
/etc/machine-id.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Thomas<br>
-- <br>
Thomas Petazzoni, CTO, Bootlin<br>
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering<br>
<a href="https://bootlin.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://bootlin.com</a><br>
</blockquote>
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